Matt Boudreau is a San Francisco-based musician, producer, mixer, and mastering engineer. His musical journey began in the late '80s as a band member and drummer, eventually transitioning into the world of audio recording in 1994. Since then, he’s developed expertise in Stereo and Dolby Atmos mixing, with credits including Alanis Morissette, Deafheaven, and Green Day.
Matt is also the founder and host of Working Class Audio, a podcast with 20,000 monthly listeners, where he interviews leading audio professionals about their careers and experiences. Alongside his studio work, he’s served as a contractor for Universal Audio–testing and reviewing high-end audio plugins.
I recently had the chance to chat with Matt about the beginning of his audio career, his growing interest in Dolby Atmos and immersive audio, and where he thinks the industry is headed.
How did you first get into audio engineering and mixing?
My career in sound was actually preceded by another career. I originally wanted to be a rock star drummer! In the ‘80s, I moved from southern New Mexico to San Francisco with a band in hopes of getting a record deal. We got the deal, put out a record, then got dropped. Then I joined another band, got another record deal, put out a few more records and then got dropped again [laughs].
The second band had some recording gear that I’d learned to use, so–at some point along the way–another band approached me and asked me to produce their record. It was completely independent and self-financed, so I agreed. By this point I’d been part of four different recording projects as the drummer, so I was very familiar with the gear and the recording process. Everything I learned was self-taught trial and error.
So we made this record, I produced it, and they put it out. This was around 1993 or 94. When I heard it on college radio and then saw the CD in a record store, that changed everything for me. I completely lost interest in being a drummer and got more excited about helping other people make their own records.

Editor's Note: Matt's 7.1.4 Atmos rig is composed of PMC monitors and a Grace M908 Monitor controller, as pictured above.
At this point, were you still working with analog tape, or had digital recording and DAWs entered the equation?
In my recording adventures, it was a mix of different formats. First, there was two-inch and one-inch analog tape. Then, that gave way to ADAT which in turn led to Pro Tools.
I remember we were at a point when ADAT was really taking off. Then, Pro Tools came out. This was right around the time when I was setting up my own rig, so I wasn’t sure which way to go. At the time, I thought, “Wow, the whole thing is on the computer? That seems like it could go somewhere.”[laughs] So I bought a Pro Tools rig around 1997 or 98.
Do you still have the analog tapes of your old band records? If so, have you considered going back and doing Atmos mixes?
Yes, I do have master's from one of my old bands. I’m still in touch with the other members and have some degree of control over that catalog, so it would be great to eventually bring that material into the ATMOS world.
How did you come to be interested in immersive audio? What made you decide to invest in a Dolby ATMOS setup? And in the pre-ATMOS days, were you mixing any 5.1 music?
Michael Romanowski is an old friend of mine. Michael and Paul Stubblebine, who were both mastering engineers, were always into 5.1, but I never got it. I didn’t take any interest in it at the time. However, some years later, with the introduction of Atmos, I started to notice a few things. There were a few of what I would call ‘canary in the coal mine’ moments.
First off, my buddy Steve Genewick–who worked at Capitol Studios at the time–was talking a lot about it. He introduced me to Maurice Patist at PMC speakers, who was also very involved with ATMOS. Once I saw those guys were taking it seriously, I started to really pay attention.
Soon after, my friends Andrew Scheps and Brad Wood, started installing systems. Finally, in the summer of 2021, Apple announced that it would support it. That’s when it really clicked.

I knew this was the moment to get involved, and I’d regret it if I didn’t make the leap. I ended up having a good conversation with a mentor about it. He said this reminded him of the days when I debated getting into Pro Tools, and I ended up being one of the first people in the Bay Area to do it. He told me that he thought I was onto something and that I should trust my gut.
So I called Maurice immediately and asked, “Can we do this in my room? It’s pretty small.” I sent him detailed drawings, measurements, and videos of my room. He and Ted White helped me get it all set up, and I haven’t looked back since.
Back in 2019, I remember reading a press release from UMG saying they were in the process of mixing hundreds of songs in Dolby Atmos. I couldn’t figure out how they were planning to roll all this catalog material out because there was no immersive streaming at the time–you could only release 5.1 or Atmos music on Blu-Ray disc. It’s just amazing to see how much growth and investment has gone into the format over these past several years.
Yeah. Not too long ago, I attended an AES event at Dolby’s headquarters in San Francisco. I figured it would just be me, Romanowski, and a few of our friends in attendance, but close to 300 people showed up. There was a line around the block to get in! I was pretty shocked and amazed to see how many people were interested. Of course, it doesn’t necessarily mean that all these people will install an Atmos system, but it is still an encouraging sign that interest is growing.
I agree, but at the same time, it often feels like there’s a disconnect between the professional and consumer sides. To set up a 7.1.4 or 9.1.6 system is a pretty big ask for the average listener. Dolby has very strict guidelines for studio setups, but there seems to be little thought in how listeners actually experience these mixes.
Dolby’s Flex Connect technology could be the game-changer that really pushes the format forward, because the system doesn’t depend on people placing speakers in exactly the right spot. It’s flexible because it can utilize the TV and a few speakers randomly placed in a room. I heard a demo of it at Dolby, and I was amazed at the possibilities.
Tell me about your Atmos mix of the Room 219 Combo’s Saturday In September album. How did that project come about?
First off, we’re talking about high school kids here, and they can really play. They were all set to go their separate ways after graduation, so their parents approached me with the idea of capturing a performance. My idea was to record it remotely in the band room of their high school, live entirely with no headphones.
We set up in the band room for a day and went through many tunes. I recorded all of it through two Grace M108 8-channel mic preamps, then brought it back home and mixed it. The stereo mixes were all derived from the ATMOS session.
I came up with this workflow when I was mixing the Green Day song, which is the theme for Bill Maher’s show on HBO. They requested various deliverables, including 7.1.4, 5.1.4, and stems in stereo. You can generate all those renders from the ADM, so it occurred to me that I could just make the stereo mixes from the Atmos master going forward.
So when we recorded Room 219, I thought, “Okay, we're gonna put mics all around the room to capture the space because this is gonna get mixed in Atmos inevitably. Then, we’ll mix both the stereo and Atmos in one session.”
So, was the recording done completely live, with no overdubs after the fact?
Aside from one minor edit, it is truly live. Even if you're streaming it on Apple Music with head tracking turned on, it doesn’t sound so strange to me because it’s not like a pop mix with all these segmented elements spread around the room. It sounds really natural, like you’re in the space with the players.

When it comes to mixing music in Atmos, what’s your philosophy? Is it more about creating a natural sense of space or isolating instruments in specific speakers? In terms of workflow, are you using both the bed and objects?
It’s funny you brought this up because I was actually contemplating it this morning. When people mix in stereo today, they’re not really doing any radical panning unless it’s for a special effect. But in the early days of stereo–like on Hendrix and Beatles records–there was all kinds of goofy stuff going on, which people seem to want to replicate in immersive mixes today. Personally, I don’t like moving stuff around just for the sake of it.
Admittedly, my workflow comes directly from Steve Genewick. When I was first getting started, Steve actually invited me to come down to L.A. and stay at his house over the weekend. While I was there, he played me a batch of mixes he’d done at his home studio, on a Sonos system in his house, and at Lemon Tree studios–where they have a dedicated PMC Atmos room. We went over to Dave Way’s house as well to listen.
After all that, Steve sat me down, opened up a Pro Tools session, and walked me through the whole process of mixing in Atmos using a 7.1.4 object bed. As a result, everything I do today is based on that workflow. The only thing I use the bed for is the LFE.

With the introduction of Apple’s “Spatial Audio” format, it seems most listeners are experiencing a binaural approximation of Atmos over headphones rather than the full immersive experience on a home theater setup. Is it difficult to simultaneously achieve effective results on both speakers and headphones?
I always start on speakers, then adjust the near/mid/far settings for binaural. I don’t listen to the Apple Spatial version because that’s a moving target. If I make a change based on what I’m hearing now and then Apple changes the algorithm, my mix suffers for it.
You’ve hosted the Working Class Audio podcast since 2014. Tell me about how that started.
This goes back to what I was saying before about Michael Romanowski. Michael and I used to share a studio space in San Francisco, where Bill Putnam’s Coast Recorders used to be. I took over the back studio–where Bill used to be–and Michael was mastering in the room upfront. This was back in 2007, during the height of the financial crisis. I ended up staying until 2012, and he lasted a bit longer.
It was a really challenging time for me, to say the least. I felt like it was a complete failure. So in 2012, I moved all my gear home and started to really think about how I was going to move forward in the audio business. During that time, I kept asking myself, “wouldn’t it be great if I could ask all my friends and peers about their audio careers and experiences?” My initial idea was to do a blog, but then I realized I hated writing. So I decided to do it as a podcast instead, and this year–2024–marks a decade of Working Class Audio.
The podcast gives me the license to ask really interesting and probably intrusive questions of friends and peers. People open up to me and tell the unvarnished versions of their stories, for which I’m really grateful. I think it’s very beneficial to the audio community as a whole because–no matter how you slice it–it’s a very difficult business. There’s always going to be the 1% that is uber-successful, and then there's the rest of us.

I think that part of the reason it’s so difficult now is because the tools are so easily available. It’s not like in the ‘70s or ‘80s where you actually had to go to a studio to make a record. A lot of the work today can be done on a laptop.
I agree. For better or for worse, it’s like other industries. Take for example, journalism–anyone can get out there with a camera and create entertainment-style news. To continue with that analogy, I suppose you could say the Walter Cronkite and Ted Koppel era of news was kind of like the analog days of audio, where you had engineering greats like Bob Clearmountain, Steve Lillywhite, and Glynn Johns.
Since ‘anyone’ can do audio now, I take the work that much more seriously. I’ve been at it for 30 years now, and there’s always more to learn. I would never consider myself the smartest guy in the room. I always try to keep a beginner’s mindset at all times.
Can you discuss any upcoming immersive projects you’re working on?
Yeah, there’s a few. One project I’m wrapping up right now–which I’m super excited about–was a referral from Andrew Scheps. Andrew had worked with a band called The Picture. Rob, the lead singer of the band, recently moved to the area where I live. He reached out to Andrew about mixing some tracks, and then Andrew referred him to me.
When I started working with Rob, I explained my process of mixing in stereo and Atmos at the same time, and he was instantly sold. So, that record is coming to a conclusion now. We’re having Justin Gray master it for us in Atmos, and Justin Perkins is doing the stereo. So, on the mastering side, we’ve got two Justins involved [laughs]. Normally, I’d master the Atmos myself, but because it’s a pop record, there are a lot of variations from song to song. I wanted to get someone else’s ears on it.

There's another guy I've been working with for a long time called Sean O'Brien. He's got a group called Sean O'Brien and his Dirty Hands, which is him and his backing band. They just finished a record, and we’re starting to do the Atmos mixes now.
I can’t see how any artist would be opposed to doing an Atmos mix, unless someone played them some really bad examples of the format first. There’s really no downside to putting one out, and you might even gain some new fans or additional publicity.
I agree, and I also have to give you credit for what you’re doing at IAA. It’s such a great business model, and my clients have been really receptive to the idea of releasing music through this platform.
That’s fantastic; I’m glad to hear it! I think a lot of people started to take notice of the site when Ryan Ulyate’s Act 3 album–which was available exclusively through IAA–got nominated for a Grammy last year.
Ryan, Andrew Scheps, Steve Genewick, myself, and several other engineers are all part of a collective of Atmos professionals. Ryan and I are always touting the benefits of IAA to the collective. He was actually the person who recommended I reach out to you.
Purchase the Room 219 Combo’s Saturday in September and The Picture’s We Are Not Myths in the IAA shop!
