Hailing from the hometown of Les Paul, who pioneered two of his favorite inventions–the electric guitar and multitrack recording–Erich Gobel has spent the last several decades in music mecca LA. building a prolific career in the business. He has done projects at the most legendary recording studios in LA, including Capitol, Sunset Sound, United and NRG, collaborating with all major record labels and contributing to both film and television productions. His engineering discography includes work with some of the most notable artists and musicians of our time.

Karma Auger was born into the musical family business. After studying music, electronics, and sound engineering, Karma started touring the world as a drummer. He continues to work with musical icons, including his father Brian Auger, whose albums he has exclusively engineered and produced for the last two decades. In 2014 he designed and built his first 5.1 studio, Master Mix Venice.

With their latest endeavor, Studio 1LA, Gobel and Auger have positioned themselves on the bleeding edge of immersive music production. The partnership between Erich and Karma highlights their strengths tenfold: it's the perfect blend of creative passion and technical excellence. I recently had the chance to catch up with both men about their immersive audio journey, working on the Dolby Atmos mixes of four classic Frank Zappa records from the ‘70s, and where they think the industry is headed.

Karma Auger Erich Gobel Studio 1LA Dolby Atmos

How did you first get into audio engineering and mixing? Who introduced you to the concept of mixing music in an immersive format?

Erich: We've both been in the music business a long time, and we started working together making records around 2007. When Atmos first came around, we both got excited about it right away. Karma had built a 5.1 studio that we later converted to Atmos. So we were involved in the whole Atmos music mixing scene very early on, in 2020 and 2021.

Karma: Let’s go back in time for a second. Our studio was finished in 2019, and then we started to just mix things that we already had to get a feel for the workflow. Then, just before the pandemic hit in 2020, we went to NAMM and met the whole Dolby team. Ceri Thomas was really spearheading the whole thing, and he came to our studio to hear some early mixes. He liked what we were doing and put us on Dolby’s trusted list of studios online, which was awesome.

PMC had an Atmos room set up at NAMM 2020, and that’s where we met with a lot of our colleagues in the immersive space. Though actually, Erich and Steve Genewick go way back–they started together at Cherokee Studios in the early-90s. From all his years working in studios, he probably knows every engineer in the greater L.A. area. [laughs]

At that point, we hadn’t really forged relationships with any of the big labels yet in this format. Then the lockdown started and no one was working. So we invited every musician and artist we knew up to the studio, getting songs from them to mix in Atmos. We were doing this for a solid year or two, and some of these early records ended up in contention for the immersive Grammy.

One cool early project was with Jimmy Haslip, who's an amazing musician. He's the bass player for the Yellowjackets, a famous jazz fusion band. He’s a 23-time Grammy nominee and 3-time winner. We did a few records with him including one titled Huge Fuse, which again helped us further build our toolbox and workflow.

This is where our partnership really shines, because Erich is a genius with all the technical aspects. I remember he’d go home at night, then come back the next morning with all the multichannel reverbs perfectly dialed-in. There are so many moving parts when it comes to this stuff, and you need a lot of horsepower to keep it all running smoothly.

So how did you come to be involved in the ongoing Frank Zappa reissue campaign?

Erich: Joe Travers–Frank’s Vautmeister, who we’ve known for years–was one of the people who came to visit the studio and see what we were doing with immersive mixing in 2020/21. That was kind of when the seed was planted, since Frank Zappa’s music is just made Atmos. We told Joe that we really wanted to mix Zappa in Atmos.

Plus, it’s well-known that Frank loved surround and kind of pioneered some of the early immersive formats. A lot of his songs were just too complex to fit into two speakers. So then, in 2022, Joe approached us about remixing Waka/Jawaka and The Grand Wazoo in Atmos for Universal.

Frank Zappa Waka/Wazoo Dolby Atmos 5.1

Editor’s Note: Released in December 2022, the five-disc Waka/Wazoo box set contains brand-new 48-khz/24-bit 5.1 surround sound & Dolby Atmos mixes of Frank Zappa's 1972 albums Waka/Jawaka and The Grand Wazoo created by Erich Gobel and Karma Auger at Studio 1LA. The Atmos mixes are also available to stream on Apple Music, Tidal, and Amazon music.

I’m surprised it’s taken this long for Frank’s catalog to be mixed in some form of surround. During the early-2000s, there were two 5.1 DVD-Audio releases–Halloween, a collection of live recordings captured at NYC's Palladium venue in October 1978, and QuAUDIOPHILIAc, a compilation of previously-unreleased quad mixes–but the only multichannel studio album releases available to listeners prior to the 2022 Waka/Wazoo set were the quad LP/tape versions of Over-Nite Sensation and Apostrophe.

Karma: I have to wonder if Frank was disappointed that quad didn’t take off. At some point he stopped doing it, because the demand was not there.

When you put up the multitracks for these albums and start to work on a rough fader-only balance, does it sound radically different from the finished stereo mix? Were there any challenges in rebuilding the sessions, like having outboard effects that weren't printed to tape?

Erich: Missing effects was a huge challenge, because there could be important parts of a song that just weren’t on tape. Frank would run things live through his Echoplex, or through an amp, or a leslie, when he was inspired to do so in the mix. So we have to recreate all those elements.

Karma: On Waka/Jawaka and The Grand Wazoo especially, it was such a challenge to figure out what was happening effects-wise. There were some things running over the entire mix and others applied to just one element. It could be a phaser, a flanger, or some other insane new invention that Bob [Moog] brought in that day. [laughs]

I think Frank would get excited and plug in one of these new pedals, press a few buttons, then run it live in the mix. So there’s no record of that anywhere. We’re trying to get these things sounding exactly the way they always have, because the fans won’t be happy otherwise.

When you do legacy work, you have to stay true to the intention of the artist. That’s our number one rule, especially in the case of Frank Zappa–who isn’t just the artist, he’s also the writer, arranger, producer, and engineer. The original mixes sound exactly the way he wanted them to, because he was involved every step of the way.

Frank Zappa Over-Nite Sensation 5.1 Quad Dolby Atmos

Editor’s Note: 1973’s Over-Nite Sensation was the first Frank Zappa album to receive a quadraphonic release, mixed by Kerry McNabb and Zappa himself. In addition to Erich Gobel and Karma Auger's Dolby Atmos & 5.1 remixes, the 50th anniversary box set–released in November 2023–also contains a hi-res remaster of the original four-channel surround mix drawn from the ½-inch master tape.

Were these albums recorded on 16-track or 24-track tape?

Erich: All four that we’ve done so far were 16-track.

Karma: Apostrophe wasn’t 48-track?

Erich: Nope, still 16. But he was using every available bit of free space on the tape.

So by the time you break out every sound onto its own channel in Pro-Tools, what was originally a 16 track session probably becomes like 50 tracks.

Erich: Exactly.

Take me through your process on one of these projects. Are you mixing first to stereo, and then you’ll break out the individual pieces into surround? Or do you make stems first and then pan those in the Atmos environment accordingly?

Erich: We’re actually mixing in Atmos right from the start, but we’re constantly referencing the vintage mixes–either stereo or quad.

Karma: The stereo is the mix everyone's heard, so that’s our guide for how things should be panned. So if something was on the left side in the stereo version of Over-Nite, then we’d check the quad to see how Frank placed that element in a surround environment. Did he put it in the front, the back, or somewhere in-between? We really wanted his intention to come across in the immersive mixes.

Frank Zappa Over-Nite Sensation CD-4 Quadraphonic LP

What were your impressions of the quad versions? I was surprised to find that Frank’s approach was fairly conservative, at least in comparison to other vintage surround mixes done in a similar timeframe like Black Sabbath’s Paranoid or Deep Purple’s Machine Head. There are definitely some passages where things swirl around–such as in the song “Fifty-Fifty”–but it seems that his preference was to keep most of the instrumentation in front of the listener and then use the back speakers primarily to project the vocal further out into the room.

Karma: I really liked how he placed things–you were definitely surrounded by the music, which felt good. We also had the honor of mastering the four-channel mixes for the Blu-Rays, so it was really fun to clean those up and get them sounding as best they could.

So we kind of had an idea of what Frank’s vision for these two albums was in surround, based on the quad mixes, but I have to wonder what he would’ve done with Atmos–which is completely different. How would he have imagined it? That’s really what the question we were trying to answer with the Atmos mixes.

Erich: I agree that he did seem to favor the drums and bass more towards the front, but there were certain instruments mixed further out to the room or completely in the rear.

The fact that you even had a vintage surround reference is so unusual. With catalog remixes, usually your only guide is the stereo.

Karma: In some ways it was incredibly helpful, and in other ways it complicated the mix–because we had two reference points. I really liked some of the panning that Frank did with the toms in the quad mixes, so we tried to carry some of that over into the Atmos. 

But at the end of the day–if we did the Atmos exactly like the quad, would that be more compelling than a mix specific to Atmos? We wanted to match the sound of the stereo, but really bring the music into a 360-degree space. Like Erich was saying before, we mix completely and totally in Atmos from that start. We’re not just widening a stereo mix or putting reverb in the back. The only limit is our imagination and creativity.

Frank Zappa Apostrophe 5.1 Quad Dolby Atmos 50th Anniversary

Erich: This is what has me most excited about the format. Plus, it’s really fun to have height speakers! I remember many years ago, I was working with a producer who liked mixing really wide in stereo. So I kind of carried that philosophy into my own mixes, and it’s the same with Atmos. You shouldn’t be afraid to use all the extra speakers. It’s great to put stuff completely above or behind the listener.

A lot of mixers seem to approach Atmos more like a traditional channel-based system, where they’re placing sounds largely in specific speakers. If you think of the immersive space like a dome, most of the point sources tend to stay on the outside. But in your mixes, there are just as many sounds positioned inside the dome as there are outside. For instance, Frank’s vocal sounds like it’s placed very precisely in the center of the room.  It seems like you’ve really embraced all the new possibilities that object-based audio affords.

Karma: Yeah, you totally get it. We mix based on space, not where the speakers are. If something wants to be out here in the room, that's where we’ll put it. Frank himself, whether it’s his vocal or solos, needed to be kind of everywhere for the mixes to make sense to us.

Erich: With Frank’s music, he’s always doing something interesting with the vocals. Sometimes he’s the voice of god and has to fill the entire room, then on another song he might have doubled vocals that are split.

Stylistically, there’s a huge change from Waka/Wazoo in 1972 to Over-Nite Sensation and then Apostrophe–both of which were recorded just one year later. For the latter two records, where the instrumentation isn’t as dense and Frank’s vocal becomes the focus, did you feel the need to change your immersive mixing approach?

Erich: There were no quad mixes for Waka/Jawaka and The Grand Wazoo, so the only
reference we had on those two albums was the stereo. So we used that as a guide for left/right placement and just blew it up into the room. By the time we got to the next two albums, like Karma was saying, having both stereo and quad references added another layer of complication.

Frank Zappa Zomby Woof Atmos

Karma: We really liked what Frank was doing with the drums in the quad mixes, so we tried surrounding the listener with the kit on those two albums perhaps more so than on Waka/Wazoo. But the drums were four tracks at most, so it was sometimes tricky to make them sound more immersive. Fortunately, the original sounds were captured on tape so well.

I remember there was some tape hiss on the multitracks that we had originally cleaned up using software, but it made the mixes sound too clinical–as if some of the mojo and vibe was gone. Sometimes these little imperfections need to stay in order for the mix to be glued together.

I’ve not heard of anyone else mixing in Atmos from the start, especially on vintage projects like these. The more common workflow seems to be starting in stereo and then expanding out to immersive, or panning pre-mixed stereo stems in a spatial environment. Since you’re working more with objects, how do you create buses and aux tracks?

Erich: It’s possible to create a bus feeding the objects. Sometimes we’ll have dedicated stereo objects placed in the rears or rear heights, which we might use as an effects return or send an instrument to it.

You mentioned before that for time-based effects like reverb or delay, you’re not just panning a stereo return channel within the 7.1.4 environment. Rather, the effect itself is actually presented in multichannel. How does that work?

Karma: Pre-made 7.1.4 reverbs and delays didn’t exist when we started mixing in Atmos. We had to build our own tools. So we’d start with a 7.0 reverb channel at ground level, and then we’ll build a separate 4.0 return for the tops using objects–because the bed limits you to 2.0 tops, even if you have four height speakers. Using this technique, as an example, you can make the snare reverb travel from ground level to above the listener and all around the room.

Every project requires its own tool set. For instance, we’ve spent hours building a 7.1.4 phaser, wah-wah, or leslie for the Frank Zappa mixes. Again, this is where Erich’s technical/musical knowledge shines. He knows every studio in town and what gear they have. So we might audition three different compressors in order to best match whatever was used on the original record in the ‘70s. This is how granular you have to get when doing catalog work.

Karma Auger Erich Gobel Studio 1LA Dolby Atmos

You guys already have a huge advantage sonically because you’re working from the original multitracks, rather than pre-mixed stems with the processing burned in. I think this is definitely the best way to mix vintage material in the immersive format, because you have complete control over the dynamics and effects returns. 

Erich: I agree, but you have to do the research. For reverb, what did they use at the original sessions? There were various different kinds of plates and chambers. Or for compression, it could be an 1176 or an LA-2A or something else.

Karma: I want to point out at this moment that mixing Atmos is hard. It really needs to be said, because it’s not stereo mixing. You don't just get a bus and a master channel. This is part of why it was so interesting to Erich and I, because it really requires a whole new way of thinking.

For me, this is kind of the paradox of Atmos: you have engineers working in amazing rooms in order to craft these super-intricate 7.1.4 or even 9.1.6 audio experiences, but then it ends up being consumed by most of the public on AirPods. When it comes to binaural, have you guys developed a workflow to ensure compatibility? Do you use the near/mid/far tags when mixing?

Erich: We always check binaural, but it's a moving target. The algorithms are constantly being refined and updated. For us, it’s important that someone can toggle between the stereo mix and the binaural without losing any detail. You want it to sound wider and more immersive without affecting the tonality.

Karma: Yes, there are certain guidelines we follow to ensure a good binaural result. For example, it really does matter how you place things in the speaker environment. The rears tend to get quieter–so if you’re gonna put a solo in the back, make sure it’s loud enough to punch through on headphones. Also, the near/mid/far settings are just a creative tool–they’re not meant as a last-minute fix to rescue the mix.

Frank Zappa Waka/Wazoo Dolby Atmos

I find that both the rear surrounds and rear heights tend to get washed out in binaural. On the other hand, the side surrounds come off exceptionally well–it really can sound like something is floating beyond the confines of the headphones. I also find that the Dolby binaural render is much better at preserving the balances of the speaker mix than the Apple one. In spatial audio, sometimes it seems like all bets are off and you don’t know what you’ll get.

Erich: Their process is completely different. They put the speaker mix through their own codec, so none of the near/mid/far settings apply.

Karma: You have to remember that we’re doing one mix for multiple formats, which is kind of insane. We’ll start with our 7.1.4 speaker mix, then check 5.1 and 7.1 renders. Then we’ll do our near/mid/far binaural settings in the renderer. After that, we’ll bring a 7.1.4 print into Logic and monitor the spatial audio codec.

The Zappa titles have been going out on Blu-Ray, so fans can actually purchase them and hear the Atmos mixes in full resolution. For the 5.1 audio stream included on disc, are you just re-rendering the ADM or is there additional tweaking to ensure best results?

Erich: Since we know these are going to Blu-Ray, we’re constantly checking the 5.1 re-render during the mix process.

Karma: It is a re-render, but we’ll do a bit of extra mastering–usually some level adjustment–to make sure it sounds good. We’re also able to keep the 5.1 resolution at 96-khz/24-bit, whereas the Atmos mixes have to be delivered at 48K for streaming.

If you could mix any album–old or new–to mix in Atmos, what would you choose?

Erich: Wow, there’s so many. I would love to do some of David Bowie’s classic albums. Or maybe some classic Motown stuff, like Marvin Gaye. The Bee Gees' "Staying Alive," Luke Combs…really there are so many great new and legacy albums of all styles that would be amazing in Atmos!

Karma: Honestly, I'd really like to do my dad's catalog. We've asked the record company that he's with if they would fund some Atmos mixes, but sadly it seems like they’re not really interested yet.

Brian Auger

Can you tease any upcoming immersive projects you’re involved with? 

Erich: Without giving anything away, there are some really exciting Atmos projects for 2025. You should be hearing about one in particular very soon!

Interesting, do you know if it’ll be released on Blu-Ray?

Erich: I hope so…

Karma: I would say it’s more likely than not.

Erich Gobel and Karma Auger Dolby Atmos Mixes
Artist/Album:Stereo Release Year:Atmos Release Year:Release Format:
Monte Casino
The Money's Not Enough20212021Streaming
Peter Smith Trio
Dollar Dreams20232023
2025
Streaming
Digital Download
Various Artists
Huge Fuse20232023
2025
Streaming
Digital Download
Zappa, Frank
Waka/Jawaka19722022
2022
Streaming
Blu-Ray
The Grand Wazoo19722022
2022
Streaming
Blu-Ray
Over-Nite Sensation19732023
2023
Streaming
Blu-Ray
Apostrophe (')19742024
2024
Streaming
Blu-Ray

Read our full reviews of the Waka/Wazoo and Over-Nite Sensation 50th anniversary reissues!

Over-Nite Sensation is nominated for IAA’s 2025 Listener’s Choice Award. Cast your vote now!

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About the Author
Jonathan is an audio engineering enthusiast from New York with a passion for immersive audio, having amassed a formidable collection of multichannel optical discs and quadraphonic vinyl. He earned his undergraduate degree in Television-Radio from Ithaca College and Master's degree in Audio Technology from American University.