Multi-platinum recording/mix engineer Brad Leigh has worked in the New York studio scene for over four decades now, having begun his career at A&R Recording Studios during the peak era of the music industry. For eight years, Brad was trained and mentored by the legendary Phil Ramone. Since then, he’s recorded and mixed best-selling albums for the likes of Billy Joel, Paul Simon, and Julian Lennon.
As a freelance engineer, Brad has continued to work with top-flight producers including Jimmy Iovine, Russ Titleman, and David Kahne. In 2022, he was tasked with creating a brand-new Dolby Atmos mix of Billy Joel's The Nylon Curtain (1982) to celebrate the album's 40th anniversary.
Over the past two years, Brad has gone on to complete Atmos mixes of five more classic albums from Joel's catalog–1973’s Piano Man, 1974’s Streetlife Serenade, 1976’s Turnstiles, 1978’s 52nd Street, 1980’s Glass Houses, and 1983’s An Innocent Man. All seven titles are currently available to stream on Apple Music.
I recently had the chance to chat with Brad about a number of topics including his immersive mixing workflow, the challenges involved with bringing these classic albums into an expanded soundstage, and where he thinks the industry is headed.
How did your engineering career start? At A&R Studios in New York City, I understand that you assisted first for Jim Boyer and later Phil Ramone.
I loved music as a kid, and I love technical things. At some point in my youth, I decided I wanted to become a recording engineer. So I got a job at a small studio right out of high school. In those days your training was like an apprenticeship, where you’d shadow an older engineer and learn everything from them.
I went over to A&R one day looking to buy a used pair of pro speakers, and I asked the owner–Don Frey–for a job, since I wasn’t making any money at the other studio. He told me they weren’t hiring assistant engineers, but they needed a tech guy. Fortunately, I did have some technical training. He said that if I agreed to work as a tech for a year, then he’d make me an assistant.
During that first year as tech at A&R, I was on the night shift. That was when Billy Joel, Phil Ramone, and Jim Boyer were cutting 52nd Street. Phil was one of the owners of A&R and he was notoriously demanding, but I got along well with him and Jim. They had some problems with equipment during the sessions, which I was able to fix.
One year later, Don Frey kept his end of the agreement and let me start assisting. At A&R, you were assigned to work under only one engineer and learn their method. You didn’t just get thrown into a bunch of different sessions with different people. So I started learning under Jim, who was originally taught by Phil. That first year assisting him, I worked on 11 albums.
Jim Boyer (left), Phil Ramone (center), and Brad Leigh (right) in 1980.
Phil had an assistant that he didn’t like and ended up firing, so I got called in the middle of the night to work with him. Since I was trained by Jim, Phil liked working with me. So after that, I worked pretty much exclusively with Phil for about six years.
That string of hit albums Billy made with Phil from 1977-1986 has to be one of the greatest runs of all time. What was it like to sit in on those sessions?
The door was locked, and nobody came in. Maybe occasionally you’d see a delivery guy with food from the Chinese restaurant nearby, but it was a private club. There were never any record company people, and no wives or girlfriends either.
Recording studios today are almost like hotels, with wood walls and fancy furniture. A&R wasn’t like that at all, it was industrial. It was the big old Columbia Studios where Frank Sinatra, Bob Dylan, and other greats recorded. As a matter of fact, I actually worked on a few sessions in that studio with Phil and Sinatra.
A-1 was a huge room, and the acoustics were amazing. I remember we used to take tall mic stands and clip these groovy colored lights on them, so it kind of felt like the stage in a venue. It was more like being at a live concert than any other sessions I’ve been at since.
Billy’s touring band–Richie Cannata, Liberty DeVitto, Doug Stegmeyer, Russell Javors, and David Brown–famously played on all those records. Were the basic tracks done live, with all the guys together in the same space?
Sometimes we’d put the acoustic guitar in a booth, but Russell, David, Doug, and Billy were definitely all in the same room. I’ve gone back and worked on seven records in Atmos now, and I’m still flabbergasted by the fact that the majority of Billy’s vocals were live–even though Liberty DeVitto was playing drums just 15 feet away!
Billy Joel and his band in 1977, as pictured on the back cover of The Stranger.
Another thing I thought was so phenomenal about working with Billy is that he would write in the studio. Sometimes he’d book the room under an alias, so the label didn’t even know he was starting a new album.
I remember we’d get all these ideas on tape–a verse here, a chorus there–and eventually it would morph into a song. Once we had the track, he’d go home and write the words. Then, when he came back to the studio, they’d recut the song–and it always came out fresh and different, since the band now had the lyrics to play off of.
Even though it's the same producer and a lot of the same musicians on The Stranger (1977) through The Bridge (1986), there's so much variety across those records in terms of the style and production. For instance 52nd Street is more of a stripped-down live-in-the-studio experience, whereas The Nylon Curtain is jam-packed with overdubs and these dense layers of sound. So when it comes to doing the Atmos mixes, some albums are probably much more suited to the format than others.
Because these records were cut live, the takes were chosen based on pure feel and energy. We didn’t go back and make sure every note was perfect. Often the power comes from the blend of instruments, so sometimes I do have to be careful about panning individual elements out in the Atmos mixes.
Billy might be singing really intensely at one point, so he’s not really playing that hard on the piano and may be dropping a note here or there. But you don’t really notice that in the stereo mix, because it’s buried under the power of the guitars. Or maybe the guitarist has a great line during the chorus, but for the rest of the track he’s just comping or laying out in spots.
I love panning instruments all around the room when possible, but I’ll choose not to when it hurts the presentation of the song or intent of the artist and producer.
I’m surprised at how adventurous you were able to get with some of the mixes. “All You Wanna Do Is Dance” is one of my favorites–it really sounds like you’re standing in the middle of the band, with the guitars and percussion hard-panned in the rear speakers.
Yeah, I love when I can do things like that. “James” came out really nice too–it’s got the Rhodes piano in the sides, and then the background vocals come in from the back. That sounds good both on speakers and in binaural.
Who approached you with the opportunity to do the Atmos mixes? Is Billy himself involved in any capacity?
I work with John Jackson, Steve Cohen, and Brian Ruggles on these projects. Brian and Steve have been with Billy since day one–Brian is his live sound mixer and Steve is his lighting director, but he's also sort of like a production manager. John is Billy’s archivist, and before that he used to work as head of A&R at Sony Legacy. So they all listen to the mixes and approve them.
I understand that Brian also worked on the new Dolby Atmos mix of The Stranger?
Yes, that’s right. He was involved in the Live At Yankee Stadium Atmos mix too.
It’s so great to see that more of Billy’s classic catalog is finally getting the immersive treatment. Frank Filipetti mixed two albums in 5.1, The Stranger and 52nd Street, back in the early-2000s. It’s interesting comparing your Atmos take on 52nd Street with his 5.1, they’re very different.
Yes, I’ve heard it and I love Frank's work. I know him well from Right Track. That said, I think it’s important for people to recognize that Atmos is a completely-different animal with its own unique set of challenges.
Most 5.1 rooms I’ve seen are nearfield, with the surrounds placed further back than the fronts but relatively-equidistant in close quarters. In a 7.1.4 Atmos room, the LCR is on the front wall, side surrounds are on the side walls, and rear surrounds are way in the back–so when you pan something completely to the rear, it could be 20 or 25 feet away! That element’s obviously going to sound more disconnected and isolated than in a nearfield 5.1 room.
Plus, with 5.1, you know that the only way the listener is going to hear your mix is on a 5.1 system. With Atmos, there are all these different ways they could be listening: a home system with up-firing speakers, a soundbar, or binaural on headphones. In binaural, I find that panning to the height speakers generally makes instruments sound brighter whereas moving to the rear makes them seem darker.
To make matters even more complex, Dolby and Apple have their own versions of binaural. In the Dolby version, you can set distances on the speakers or instruments–near, mid, and far–but Apple disregards those and applies their own fixed room simulation.
When I mix in Atmos, one thing I like to do–especially with the older records that are tight and have power–is to turn off the distance setting on the LCR, so the impact of those speakers on headphones isn’t diluted by the virtual room simulation. For the instruments in the sides, rears, or upper speakers, I’ll often use the mid or far settings. This has no effect on speakers, but it does change how you perceive the mix on headphones–so it’s a real balancing act.
Do you primarily mix with objects, or a combination of beds and objects?
I’m working mostly in the 7.1.2 bed, though I do have four static objects placed up top in order to access the quad ceiling. If I want something to really pop out, I’ll make it an object. I know a lot of guys mix exclusively using objects, but I find that approach overcomplicates the process and gets between me and the music. Object panning can be critical when listening on different formats. Mix relationships can shift when you’re switching between speakers, Dolby binaural, and Apple Spatial.
The first time I noticed this was on An Innocent Man, when I panned the backing vocals in “Uptown Girl” to the rear using objects. I was referencing the original stereo mix heavily and got the levels on those backgrounds right where I wanted them in the room, but then they sounded 3 dB too loud in Apple Spatial.
Again, it’s this juggling act of trying to get the mix to sound great everywhere–but at the end of the day, you know that 90% of people are probably listening on headphones. So I start by matching the mix on speakers in stereo, then I’ll switch to headphones to pan the instruments and add the multichannel effects. After that, I go into an Atmos studio and adjust the mix on a 7.1.4 system. Lastly, I go back to headphones and make a few final adjustments.
You can A/B my Atmos mix of The Nylon Curtain with the original stereo and it’s incredibly close. I think it sounds a bit more open and detailed than the original, but it’s obviously the same record.
I think that could be said about all the Billy Joel Atmos mixes you’ve done thus far. They’re really, really faithful to the originals.
Unless the listener goes into the settings on their iPhone or iPad and turns off spatial audio, when they go to play “Captain Jack” on Apple Music they’re getting my Atmos mix–not the original stereo. So with that in mind, I feel there’s a real need to deliver the fans what they’re expecting to hear.
From what I’ve been told, most Atmos mixes–including older catalog albums–tend to be created from pre-mixed stems. But it sounds like you’re getting raw transfers of the original analog multitracks, which means you have to essentially start from scratch in recreating the sound of the album.
Yeah. I get the original 24-track tapes, so I’m starting from ground zero. In fact, I actually went to oversee the transfers at Sony.
So these analog transfers are being done specifically for the Atmos mixes?
Yes. We actually did The Nylon Curtain at 96-khz/24-bit first, but then Sony came and essentially said “we don’t want to go back to these tapes ever again, so it has to be 192-khz/24-bit.”
So all the transfers are now done at 192K, and then I’ll resample to 96K for my Pro Tools session.
When you put up the dry multitrack and start pushing faders, how different does it sound from the finished mix? Is a lot of the balance and vibe already there, or does it take a lot of work to get it sounding somewhere in the ballpark of the original.
It depends on the album. The earlier records, like Streetlife Serenade and Piano Man, were done on 16-track and those sound pretty close to what you hear in the stereo mixes. But with Phil’s stuff, it’s a lot more complex because they were experimenting with the arrangement while the tape was rolling. I think it took a minimum of three days to mix each song on The Nylon Curtain. I'm constantly referencing the original stereo in order to figure out which elements on the tape were actually used in the final mix.
Phil would often change things at the last minute in the mix. For example, I had to re-comp Freddie Hubbard’s flugelhorn solo in "Zanzibar.” On the tape, there’s three or four different performances and the final version you hear on the record is a comp of the best parts from each take. So you have to really pay attention and make sure you’re using the correct takes, because the fans will notice if it’s wrong.
Also–there were only 16 or 24 tracks to work with back then, so the content of each track might change throughout the song. It could be a guitar during the chorus, then a tambourine in the verse, then a backing vocal in the bridge, etc. Today, I can split all those elements out onto separate tracks and EQ them individually. That’s one of the ways I can arguably improve upon the original mixes. Even the drums are mono on some of the earlier records.
The original track sheet to "You May Be Right" from 1980's Glass Houses.
I knew mono drums were common on 8-track recordings from the late-60s and early-70s, but by the time of 16-track I would’ve assumed most people were doing stereo overheads.
There may have been some stereo stuff, but I remember a lot of Piano Man and Turnstiles having mono drums. On the tape, it’s usually kick, snare, and a single overhead. Usually the direct snare track isn’t great, so most of the drum sound is in that mono overhead.
Billy’s piano is often on a single track as well, but I was able to use some tricks to give it a bit more spread. Sometimes I’d pan it just slightly off to one side, and then I have a short stereo reverb going as well that makes it seem a bit wider.
Piano Man, Streetlife Serenade, and Turnstiles were released on quadraphonic LP in the 1970s. Have you heard those mixes? The four-channel Piano Man was actually reissued on SACD in Japan earlier this year.
I know that the Streetlife quad mix was released on SACD by Audio Fidelity some years ago, and I was able to get my hands on that and give it a quick listen. I thought it was pretty weird, and very dry compared to the original stereo. It was a nice reference though.
At A&R, I remember there was a big Panasonic quad encoder on one of the equipment racks that had these huge VU meters I lusted after. By the way, I still think quad is the best immersive format–how can you not love four big equal-sized speakers?
On The Nylon Curtain especially, Billy really leaned into the idea of using the studio as an instrument. There’s all kinds of interesting effects on that record, like the flanging on the drums in “Laura.” Were any of those sounds put to tape, or did you have to recreate them?
From having worked on the album originally, I did remember a lot of the outboard gear that was used: the Ursa Major Space Station, Lexicon Prime Time, 949 Harmonizer, etc. The flanging on the drums in “Laura” was definitely not on the tape, I had to add that back in using a plugin.
I remember when I was working on “Goodnight Saigon,” there was a note on one of the track sheets mentioning that the vocal should have a 20 ms delay. So I did it using a generic delay plugin, since Eventide hadn’t released their recreation of the 949 yet.
When I sent it to John, Steve, and Brian to listen, they loved the mix but immediately noticed that something wasn’t quite right with the vocal sound. So I was eventually able to get the 949 plugin and put that on the vocal, which instantly fixed the problem.
I find this so fascinating because the average listener probably couldn’t tell you anything about an Eventide 949 or what it does, but they would immediately notice if the vocal sound doesn’t match what they’re used to.
I remember there was another song I was working on–can’t remember which at the moment–but there’s a phasing effect running through the entire track, sort of like a notch filter, that gives it this odd hollow sound. After days of trying to get it to match, I decided to just give up.
Steve called me back after I handed the mix in and said “It's brilliant. It's everything the song was supposed to be. It's like cleaning up a Vermeer painting, but I missed that phasing sound on it.” [laughs]
You mentioned before that you’re mixing primarily using the 7.1.2 bed, and one advantage to that approach is that you can process the master bus. When these records were originally mixed at A&R, I assume were they using mix bus compression to add more 'punch' and power?
Actually, two-bus compression was less common in those days. It didn’t really become a thing until the advent of the SSL console, which had a stereo bus compressor built in. So once people had that right at their fingertips, it became more common. That said, I am comparing the Atmos mixes with Ted Jensen’s original masters–and he would have used bus compression and EQ when mastering.
With Atmos–as you say–since I’m working in the bed, I’ve got 7.1.2 compressors, equalizers, and limiters in my session. If I were to make something an object, like a guitar or horn solo, I'd want that part to pop out–so it not getting the bus compression hitting the bed is actually a benefit.
Going back to 52nd Street, maybe the biggest difference between your Atmos mix and Frank Filipetti’s 5.1 version is the way the center speaker is utilized. The 5.1 has Billy’s voice isolated in the center, whereas you’ve generally made fairly-limited use of it in your Atmos mixes. How do you think the center speaker should be used in an immersive music mix?
When I started doing Atmos, there was at least one label–I think it was Universal–that had a rule saying they would reject any mixes that had the vocals in the center channel. This was before A.I., so I think they were trying to prevent people from stripping out the vocals or creating their own instrumental versions of the track.
I also find that in binaural, putting the vocal in the center channel makes it sound more recessed in headphones. Plus, it requires that the listener have their system set up correctly. So I decided not to get into the habit of using the center too much, and certainly not for vocals.
I noticed in some songs that you'll occasionally highlight an isolated instrument in the center channel. For example, throughout “Until The Night” there’s an acoustic guitar part in there that I didn’t even know existed.
I like to put little easter eggs in the center channel, or parts that are critical but not featured. Who doesn’t like to see all the meters move? [laughs]
All eight of Billy's studio albums released between 1973 and 1983 are currently streaming in Atmos. I'm guessing this implies that immersive versions of the remaining titles will appear sooner rather than later?
I’m not sure if they plan on completing the catalog. Timothy Smith at Sony had mentioned to me a few months ago that they were aiming to get Billy's rock records out in Atmos by next year. I got a call for Glass Houses not long after that. Then, Streetlife Serenade suddenly shows up in my inbox. So these have all been surprises to me.
I assume the odds of them wanting Cold Spring Harbor (1971) in Atmos probably aren’t high?
Actually, I'd love to mix that record. I think it would be great just to have a new stereo version out, because what’s on the multitracks is better than the original mix suggests.
Are you getting calls to do more Atmos work outside of Billy Joel's catalog? If so, is there any album in particular–old or new–you'd be interested in creating an immersive mix of?
I haven’t yet, but it’s definitely something I’m interested in. That said, my situation is somewhat unique because the artist needs to say “we want Brad Leigh to do the Atmos mix.” In general, the labels are doing Atmos mixes internally–so someone needs to vouch directly for my involvement and budget.
Rickie Lee Jones’ first record would be really cool in Atmos. Also, Simon and Garfunkel could be amazing. The arrangements on those records are pretty simple, so you can really spread things out into the room and make it intimate. But there are so many records I’d love to track down and mix in Atmos.
